A long standing controversy amongst Davidians continues to wax hot in discussions around the internet on the subject of whether there will be more than 144,000 saved alive from the first fruit harvest in the Seventh-day Adventist (S.D.A.) church. The “those with” or sometimes referred to as “others saved” doctrine has its origin from a publishing editor under Brother Houteff who brought forth his teaching in the 1960’s. This perverted teaching has since migrated and mutated all throughout the diverse diaspora of Davidians who profess the follow the Shepherd’s Rod message. In recent years a new modeled type of argument has arisen to justify the erroneous idea that there will be more than 144,000 saved alive from the S.D.A. church which we will identify as the “Psuedo Progressive Light Argument” (PPLA). Recently a website is attempting to address this somewhat complicated and long standing controversy in a three part presentation.
In the first analysis is should be noted that this same type of argument has been wrongly used in approaching the special resurrection of Daniel 12:2 where several passages from the SOP and some early Rod publications pointed to the seventh last plague as the time this event would take place in contrast to passages published later by Brother Houteff which place the event before the general close of probation. This has created an apparent contradiction which many Davidians have incorrectly argued that Sister White and Brother Houteff did not have all of the light on this subject and their earlier comments were only based on the then common understanding of the day rather than inspiration. This fallacious reasoning has since been questioned and proven to be without foundation based on some more recent studies of earnest students of the Rod scattered about the vineyard independent of each other. We produced a two part video presentation that made clear that the only reasonable way to harmonize all that inspiration has given us is to recognize a double application for this event.
Returning to the present controversy on the living “those with”, below are listed two almost identical PPLA’s in an attempt to make it appear that Brother Houteff did not have all of the light revealed on this subject until after 1946. Most all the references given has been analyzed in a prior post in this website in 2010 which contains a detailed study which can be conveniently downloaded as a PDF. Prior to these two lists we will respond by including a portion from our prior study (Appendix A) along with a few additional comments based on a couple a new references that have been added to the list.
Appendix A:
Contradiction: Bro. Houteff did not have all the light revealed on whether there would be “others” saved alive from the SDA church until 1953.
Response: A group who at one time identified themselves as the “Battering Rams Ministry” (B.R.M.)* have offered up a pseudo historical justification of “others” that will be saved alive from the S.D.A. church, in addition to the 144,000, based on the faulty premise that Brother Houteff did not know or have the light fully revealed to him about how many would be saved alive from the S.D.A. church until 1946. They do this by using a series of Rod references starting in 1935 which progress in the following order 1 SC 15:9 (1935); 9 Tr 56 (1942); 4 Ans 35.1 (1944); and 1 TG 11:11 (1946). This platform of reasoning falls short and proves unreasonable on several points. First, two of the references used 9 Tract p. 56 and 4 Answerer p. 35 are misapplied in the same manner that others use (please review Section 8 in the PDF study posted in a earlier post on this website). That is, based on their preconceived bias that there must be more saved alive from the S.D.A. church, they come to the erroneous conclusion that the phrase “though it does not say that there may not be others” applies to the S.D.A. church rather that to the Great Multitude as the passage clearly indicates. As well, by taking the phrase from 4 Answerer, p. 35 “In the final analysis, however, it is neither the Rod’s purpose nor its intent to say just how many wise and how many foolish there will be in this first-fruit harvest” they reason that this must apply only to the ten virgins awaiting their Lord at the time the S.D.A. church is purified rather that recognizing that the “first-fruit harvest” period began in 1844 (3 Tr 85) and will include both a numbered group of living saints (144,000) and an unnumbered amount of dead saints who will arise in the special resurrection of Daniel 12:2 along with an unnumbered amount of foolish who will be killed in Ezekiel 9 (please review Section 11). Thus they are found to be teaching short of the Rod.
*(This ministry, a disgruntled faction from the present day Waco Association, arose sometime around 2007 and published this doctrine on a website (http://www.hearyetherod.org/page13.html). Later by 2010 this group splintered and out of it arose a new ministry headed by Lennox Sam called “Wave Sheaf Ministries” who also holds to this view of “others” saved.)
(1930)
“Again, we call your attention to the past and future tense of the scripture; while Rev. 14:13, is in future tense, Isa. 57:1, is in past. This being present truth, it is easy to see that we, at the present time, stand between these two scriptures. The predicted event for the purification of God’s church is by no means a small one. Those who cannot undergo the trial are laid in their graves, while 144,000 remain and will escape, but the balance in the church (now) shall perish in the ruin. May God help His people.” 1SR. 219.
(Note – no others with – living.)
(1932)
“In 1929 just such a message came to the Seventh-day Adventist church, and it was put in writing and published in 1930, entitled “The Shepherd’s Rod,” Volume 1. And as the message went to all the sisterhood of churches (as far as possible) throughout the world, the man clothed with linen, which had the writer’s inkhorn by his side, was told: (Read Ezek. 9:4-6.)
“On this Scripture was the message based, prophetically declaring, that 144,000 will be marked, and the balance now in the church must suffer the consequences except they repent and march on with the truth of God.” (2SR 278, 279)
(Note – Possibility for others with living.)
(1935)
“In regard to the specific event in question, if the questioner will open his SRod, Vol. 1 and carefully restudy page 219, he will clearly see that the context of the statement, “Those who cannot undergo the trial are laid in their graves,” requires that it be fulfilled before Eze. 9. Hence, it can only apply to the righteous who die under the Third Angel’s Message up to the purification of the church, fulfilling Isa. 57:1 and not Rev. 14:13.” (1SC #7 p8)
Note – Others with, dead. “Those who cannot undergo the trial are laid in their graves,” is not because they do not have the blood of an Israelite, but because they cannot under go the trial.
(1935)
Question: “Will those who are now accepting the S.D.A. faith during this sealing time be among the 144,000, or fall in the slaughter of Ezekiel 9?”
Answer: “All that are found members of the church at the fulfillment of Ezekiel Nine will either receive the seal and be of the 144,000, or else be left without and fall under the “slaughter weapons” of the “five men.” Only those who “sigh and cry for all the abominations” in the church will escape from the destruction” (1SC #11, 12 p8.)
(Note – no others with – living.)
Question: “Will all but the 144,000 of the present S.D.A. denomination actually be slain in the separation?”
Answer: “All but those who do not receive the mark or seal, old or young, male or female, will fall under the slaughter weapons of the angels. (Ezek. 9:6.) Only those who sigh and cry for all the abominations in the midst thereof will receive the mark. (verse 4.) John saw 144,000 sealed (marked). If others from within the S.D.A. denomination besides the 144,000 should escape, it is not known to us” (1SC #15 p9)
(Note – did not have light as to others with – living.)
(1936)
“All that are found members of the church up to the fulfillment of Ezekiel Nine will either receive the seal and be a part of or with the 144,000, or else be left without the seal and fall under the “slaughter weapons” of the “five men.” (2SC #5, 6 p7)
(Note – possibility for others with – living)
(1940)
“To Gather a Class Defiled With Women, A Second Fruits.”
“This class of saints must be those who have at one time been married to some unchristian mistress, a heathen church, and who consequently are not descendants of either Jacob or the Christian church. So there are to be two harvests — one from the church and one from the world: the record of the former, mentions only Israelites, the 144,000, those not defiled with women, though it does not say that there may not be others; while the record of the latter, however, definitely embraces a “great multitude” from all nations which must necessarily be both of undefiled and defiled ones — Jews and Gentiles.” (9TR p56)
(Note – possibility for others with – living Gentiles with in the S.D.A church.)
(1944)
“IF HALF AND HALF THEN, WHAT ABOUT NOW?”
Question No. 92:
“The Shepherd’s Rod,” Vol. 1, p. 30, makes the statement that the Seventh-day Adventist denomination numbered 300,000 at the time the book was written, this fact suggesting that about half, 144,000, are the five wise virgins and that the other half are the five foolish virgins. But how can this be so when today the Denomination numbers 500,000?
Answer:
“Writing in 1930, the Rod was necessarily speaking in terms, not of the then unknown membership of today, but of the established membership at that time. And though the number then (300,000) did naturally suggest about an even division of members (two classes, good and bad–“wise virgins” and “foolish virgins”), yet as there are only 144,000 Israelites to be sealed, the number of the unsealed would have even then exceeded the number of the sealed.“In the final analysis, however, it is neither the Rod’s purpose nor its intent to say just how many wise and how many foolish there will be in this first-fruit harvest, for when the whole truth is made known, the figure of the “five wise virgins,” besides comprehending the 144,000 from the tribes of Israel, may be found to include a considerable number from the Gentile nations.” (4 ANS. 34, 35)
Note – possibility for living Gentiles to be saved in the first fruit harvest – the S.D.A church. See 2Tg #4 p15.
Question No. 93:
“Although I am not a member of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, yet since I have the light on Ezekiel 9 and on the truth of the 144,000, will I fall in the slaughter of the wicked if I do not fully accept and live up to the light? And, conversely, will I be subject to the enjoyment of the privileges of the 144,000 and be one of them if I obey all the light of this message?
Answer:
“Even though you are not a member of the church, still you will be held accountable for the light which you have on the subject, for no one finds the truth accidentally, or sees it without the Holy Spirit’s aid.“By the same law of accountability or sacred responsibility, even though you may have come into the message only recently you can be eligible for the election of the 144,000 if you live up to the message that is to purify and seal them. Whether or not for a certainty, however, you will be one of them, we do not know, but if you are faithful to the message, you will at least be one with them. (4ANS. p35, 36)
Note – the possibility for the questionnaire to be one of or with the 144,000 is determined upon their faithfulness to the message that is to purify and to seal them. Bro. Houteff could not reveal as to what company they would belong, only God knows, but one thing is for sure, inspiration left the door open for others with, (living) and we should also.
(1953)
“So, only those who survive the Judgment for the Living, in the house of God (1 Pet. 4:17), those whose names are not blotted out from the Book (Rev. 3:5) will comprise the church, among whom are to be 144,000 sons of Jacob.” (1TG #11 p11)
AMONG: (among the crowd. –Webster)
Note –This statement proves that others beside the 144,000 will escape the slaughter in the house of God.
Let us look further at the two other references used as the keystone to the Battering Ram argument.
. . . So, only those who survive the Judgment for the Living, in the house of God (1 Pet. 4:17), those whose names are not blotted out from the Book (Rev. 3:5) will comprise the church, among whom are to be 144,000 sons of Jacob (Rev. 7:3-8), and when Michael stands up then those whose names are left in the Book will be delivered from the “trouble such as never was” (Daniel 12:1). They are “the remnant,” the ones who escape alive from the Judgment for the Living in the House of God. Thus the antitypical temple is to be built (Ezekiel chapters 40-43) and the cities are to be spread abroad.
Then these guileless servants of God, the first fruits, are to be sent to the nations that have not heard of God’s fame (the non-Christian), and they shall declare His glory among the Gentiles and shall bring all their brethren, the second fruits, all that are to be saved, to the house of the Lord (Isa. 66:16, 19, 20), to the purified church of God, where there shall be sin no more and no chance taking of being hit by the plagues (Rev. 18:4).”—1 TG 11:11, 12
The faulty reasoning used is that the “among whom” who “will comprise the church” are going to be the 144,000 and “others” saved alive from the S.D.A.church. However, they fail to read the passage in its proper context. Upon reading the next paragraph, which this group does not include in their study, we see that it is referring to those who will be gathered into “the house of the Lord (Isa. 66:16, 19, 20) the purified church of God” during the kingdom. This being a period of time after the S.D.A. church is purified (Eze. 9) the two groups that are brought into the purified kingdom church are logically the 144,000 first fruits from the S.D.A. church and the Great Multitude, the second fruits, from all nations, kindreds, tongues, and peoples. In no wise does the passage indicate that there is another group of living saints that come from the S.D.A. church. Thus, reading the passage in its proper context, “only those who survive the Judgment of the Living” “will comprise the (kingdom) church” (purified) “among whom are to be” the 144,000 first fruits from the S.D.A. church and the Great Multitude, the second fruits, from the world, no more, no less. For the remaining Rod statement used to establish their pseudo historical precedent for living “others” from the S.D.A. church we read…
Question: “Will all but the 144,000 of the present S.D.A. denomination actually be slain in the separation?”
Answer: All but those who do not receive the mark or seal, old or young, male or female, will fall under the slaughter weapons of the angels. (Ezek. 9:6.) Only those who sigh and cry for all the abominations in the midst thereof will receive the mark. (verse 4.) John saw 144,000 sealed (marked). If others from within the S.D.A. denomination besides the 144,000 should escape, it is not known to us.”—1 SC 15:9
The answer to the question is honest and straight-forward, why try to read anything into the passage that simply is not there? The B.R.M. makes a fatalistic assumption that Bro. Houteff did not have all of the light on the subject of whether there would be more that 144,000 saved alive from the S.D.A. church at the time the passage was written. As we have seen this assumption is without merit and does not stand the test to take all that the writer has to say on a subject before jumping to an unsound conclusion (3 Tr 91). To imply that Bro. Houteff did not know how many S.D.A.’s would be saved alive from the church until 1946, borders on the absurd and smacks straight in the face of a multitude of evidence obtained throughout the credenda of the writings of the Rod (see Section 2 for twenty statements covering all periods of his writings showing clearly what Bro. Houteff understood on this topic). Perhaps the B.R.M. and other living “others” advocates had better take heed to the following counsel.
“Moreover, whatever interpretation we may place on any statement in reference to any truth, must be in harmony with every other statement on the subject.”—3 SC 1:11.1
From B. Albert Graham (excerpted from a document published on the Facebook discussion group “Truth Tellers” under the Files menu):
(1)——-*1930*:—-> “The twelve tribes of Israel after the flesh are but**a type**of Israel by the promise (the 144,000)*. **As there were Gentiles among Israel (the type), there would be Gentiles in Israel the true.”**{Shepherd’s Rod book, Vol.1,64
(2)——-May-June *1936*:—-> “All that are found members of the church up to the fulfillment of Ezekiel Nine, will either *receive the seal and* be a *part of*, *or with*, the 144,000, or else be left without the seal and fall under the “slaughter weapons” of the “five men.”‘Who Will Fall and Who Will Stand?” “Those who are too young in the faith are not required to understand more of the teachings in “The Shepherd’s Rod” than time has permitted them, but they are under obligation to continue studying and to “sigh and cry for all the abominations” in the church. There is no excuse for neglecting this duty. The existing evils in the church are very easily recognized and one must speak even though one may not understand every point of the doctrines.”{-Vol. 2 Symbolic Code Nos. 5, 6 pg.8}
(3)——-*1940*AND *1942*:—-> “So there are to be two harvests — one from the church and one from the world: the record of the former, mentions only Israelites, the 144,000, those not defiled with women, though**it does not say that there may not be others**; while the record of the latter, however, definitely embraces a “great multitude” from all nations which must necessarily be both of undefiled and defiled ones — Jews and Gentiles.”{-Tract 9:pg.56}
(4)——-*1944*:—-> “Writing in 1930, the Rod was necessarily speaking in terms, not of the then unknown membership of today, but of the established membership at that time. And though the number then (300,000) did naturally suggest about an even division of members (two classes, good and bad–“wise virgins” and “foolish virgins”), yet as there are only 144,000 *Israelites to be sealed*, the number of the unsealed would have even then exceeded the number of the sealed.” “In *the final analysis*, however, it is *neither the Rod’s purpose, nor its intent*,*to say*just how many* wise and how many foolish*there will be* *in this first-fruit harvest*, for when the whole truth is made known, the figure of the “five wise virgins,” *besides* comprehending the 144,000 from the tribes of Israel, may be found *to include* a *considerable number* from the Gentile nations*.”{Answerer Book 4, pgs. 34 & 35}
(5)——-*Aug.1946*-AND- *1953*Reprint:—-> “Remember, too, that you are candidates for *the first fruits*, to be *either *one with*, or *one of* the 144,000, that you are to be without guile in your mouths (Rev. 14:5)”.{1TG.4, pg.27.}
(6)——-*Oct, 1946*-AND- *1953*Reprint, too:—-> ”So, only those who *survive* the Judgment for the Living, in the house of God (1 Pet. 4:17), those whose names are not blotted out from the Book (Rev. 3:5) will *comprise the church*, *among whom* are to be 144,000 *sons of Jacob* (Rev. 7:3-8), and when Michael stands up then those whose names are left in the Book will be delivered from the “trouble such as never was” (Daniel 12:1). *They* are “the remnant”, the ones *who escape alive* from the Judgment for the Living in the House of God.”{Timely Greetings, Vol. 1, No.11, pg.11}
(7)——-*1947*-AND-*1948*Reprint, too:—-> “This phase of truth reveals the sealing of the first and second fruits:**From among**the first fruits**come*the 144,000* — 12,000 out of each of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel. Down through the centuries they have descended first as Jacobites and then as Christians. After these, come the second fruits, the great multitude out “of all nations.” Rev. 7:9-17.””(The theory that the living saints at the coming of the Lord are **only 144,000 in number, is discredited** in that **it leaves no chance for even one person to be saved from a nation other than the descendants of Jacob**, not even from the descendants of Abraham, save through Jacob himself. Moreover, **the theory makes the term “firstfruits” a vain thing** because it does not advocate second fruits.)”–{Tract 15, page 63}
This passage in Tract No. 15, p. 63 is making reference to the erroneous theory that only 144,000 living saints will be saved alive from the whole world which was a common thought amongst S.D.A.’s in the days of Brother Houteff. It is not speaking to only 144,000 saved alive from the S.D.A. church as Albert Graham would like us to believe as this would be a clear misapplication of the text. If read in the proper context of the author’s intended meaning, Brother Houteff is talking about whose is going to be saved as living saints from among both “the first firsts, 144,000 — 12,000 out of each of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel” and “After these, come the second fruits, the great multitude out “of all nations.” Rev. 7:9-17 . . .” This is in harmony with all other passages in the original Shepherd’s Rod that make reference to others saved out of the Great Multitude, outside of the S.D.A. church (e.g. 9 Tr 56).
Brethren at the conclusion of this often long and winding road may we all humble ourselves before the Lord, earnestly study for ourselves, and ask the Holy Spirit to guide, lead, and direct us unto all Truth as the soul saved may be your own. Finally may we learn to teach only that which is published in the original SRod message and not what we think it teaches according to our preconceived ideas or emotions. “Cease ye from man whose breath is in his nostrils” — Isaiah 2:22.
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