What does the Question in Answer Book No. 6 Actually Address?
The actual question being asked does not have anything to due with the timing of Jacob’s time of trouble as can be seen from the text below.
Question: The Great Controversy, p. 616, and Patriarchs and Prophets, pp. 202-203, say that the saints will go through the time of trouble, but The Shepherd’s Rod literature seems contradictorily to tell us that they will be in the kingdom. Does not this bring on a serious clash? If you are able to show harmony, I should like to see it.
The answer goes on to point out two things. 1) all saints are gathered in the time of trouble, the same time that God is also setting up the kingdom, and 2) that the passages in GC 613-34 and PP 202-203 are referring to the saints as a collective body and—not as a specific group such as the 144,000 or the Great Multitude (GM) separately. It further clarifies that the 144,000 pass “through persecution and trouble at the hand of their former brethren” (Jacob’s time of trouble) prior to the GM who “come out of great tribulation”, “the time of trouble such as never was” (Dan. 12:1).
Although this manuscript version of Answer Book No. 6 does state that the 144,000 will go through their trouble before the GM, it does not state that Jacob’s time of trouble takes place before Ezekiel nine or that there is an “intervening time” between the sealing and and slaughter of Ezekiel 9 as the New Codes teach (11 SC 7:3). It if did, it would be in contradiction with the other passages in the Rod which clearly place Jacob’s time of trouble after Ezekiel 9 (2 TG 10:29). For a study entitled Times of Trouble which identifies the “present trouble” that the 144,000 will experience at the hands of their brethren in the church prior to Ezekiel 9, please download the PDF version by clicking the link.
Flawed Reasons and Further Presumptions
The claim by the Waco leadership that this newly found “jewel” will somehow clear the mists of confusion surrounding the subject of Jacob’s time of trouble is severely flawed on several points.
- Is not the original authorized publications of the Rod (1930 to 1954) sufficient to teach us what we need to know about Jacob’s time of trouble?
- Why is it all of a sudden at this late hour in 2012, a full 57 years after the death of Brother Houteff that now clarification on the timing of Jacob’s trouble has appeared from a manuscript that was never authorized for publication?
- The plain fact that Answer Book No. 6 was never published by Brother Houteff and made available for circulation as the leaves of autumn to Laodicea in comparison with Answer Books Nos. 1-5, for whatever reason, is sufficient grounds to reject its authority.
- Their are multiple warnings and admonitions published by Brother Houteff that is imperative to teach only that which is found in the authorized publications of The Shepherd’s Rod (5 Ans 55, 56; 1 SC 8:8; 1 SC 4:1; 1 SC 7:5, 6; 4 SC 1-5:3, 3 SC 5, 6:14; 2 SC 12:10; 3 SC 3, 4:13; GCS 35). Can we ignore these replete warnings with impunity and be claim ourselves blameless before God’s judgment throne?
If one stays firmly within the hedge of inspiration and keeping only with that which was published at the hands of Brother Houteff from 1930 to 1954 then there is no confusion regarding the timing of Jacob’s time of trouble as it is plainly stated in proper chronological order in at least two sources (2 TG 10:29, 30 and Fundamental Beliefs, pp. 12, 13). It is evident that the confusion that arises in certain Davidian circles comes from those who persistently choose to uplift the unauthorized and uninspired counterfeit New Code sermon addresses published, not by the prophet himself, but by the wife, one of the first usurpers of the prophetic office.
100% Rod Only Davidians cannot accept any unauthorized publications after the death of Brother Houteff as part of the inspired testimony found in the golden bowl of Zechariah 4. The Answerer Books Nos. 6 and 7 are thus rejected because:
- They were not published and distributed by Brother Houteff while he was alive.
- The authorization to bring manuscripts of these Answerer Books forward to pre-publication stage was done by the presumption of Ben L. Roden and his son, George.
- The dubious origin of the manuscripts for these books can not be verified from independent sources. In contrast, the original published Rod message (1930-54) can be verified from multiple independent sources.
- The contents of these manuscripts contains no significant revelations concerning the original message of The Shepherd’s Rod.
- The only online published source of Answerer Books Nos. 6 and 7 is that coming from a Branch Davidian website.
- A reference is made to the private theories of M. J. Bingham woven into the manuscript of Answerer Book No. 7.
End of Post
Excellent brother. The only fact we need, is that Brother Houteff under the guidance of the Holy Spirit kept all that was NOT published — not published for a divine reason. As you say, we have all we need by God’s divine plan to reach the kingdom through the straight “published” writings under Brother Houteff.
Brother P, thanks for comment and the obvious conclusion that we should follow only that which is published by the prophet despite the efforts of some to wedge in unauthorized publications in order to hold up their belief in the New Codes and other remodeled Rod doctrines that have crept into the fold since the death of Brother Houteff in 1955. Hold fast to that which is good.
that’s good… i imagined, after bro. houteff died, the enemies happiness success. But we should remember, the battle is not ours.THIs is God’s battle. we know that we are not united now because satan doesn’t like!. But we know also that God can change everything for his people to unite fully in love with each other…
Dear Sister Lucino:
Thank you for your comments. This subject of unity in the ranks is poorly understood and needs to be addresses based on what the Rod says. God willing we plan to post on this shortly.
In that blessed hope,
The Publishers
I’m brother lucino not sister. Publishers, I have witnessed everything about the division of mountaindale asso. from Salem davidians for the said reason of the picked up “those with the 144,000 by Don Adair. At this time, Can I learned also from you the history of division, and the truth which you have now if you think they are false by picking up “those with them in the 144,000 topic. Show me the evidence. I’m asking this not to let you up or let you down but to have a fair comparison. Because i had already got their side… Thank you Godbless…
Dear Brother Lucino:
Greetings in Christian love!
Please forgive me for misidentifying you as a sister in Christ.
As for all of the divisions in our midst I thank God that the Rod forewarned us that the enemy would attempt to deliver a knock out blow by friends of the faith (WHR 33), and we have certainly seen plenty of it starting with Florence Houteff and a host of others coming on after. Truly the shepherd has been smitten and sheep scattered. Regarding the controversy over the “those with” I have been on both sides if the issue and ultimately had to search the Rod for myself and take what it teaches. A detailed study has been prepared at the link listed below. I do look forward to the day the Lord takes the reigns in His hands and the 144,000 will all see eye-to-eye and speak the same things.
http://whyperish.org/2010/06/03/those-with-the-144000-who-are-they/
May God bless your continued search for Truth as for hidden treasure.
In that blessed hope,
Brother Eric
Publishing Director
upa7.org
shepherds-rod-speaks.org
whyperish.org
Brother Eric, I had discover few informations about the issue about the separation of each Headquarters especially started at Salem. I am very sorrowful of that events.. Now I will ask you few questions and I need an answer honestly if you know the story about……. Is it true that one brother have a secret relationship with the treasurer and cause six times abortions and the money of the association at salem was affected and the executive council did not knew it?. That’s why there is problem with the bankbook not release and Norman Archer was able to withdraw it and found very lacking to its full account. Is it true that this brother was discipline and others had symphatized to him and time comes when a study about 144,000 and those with them was rejected by those who symphatized with him?. If this is wrong kindly correct me. If true, the enemy is working to tear down the work of God! My conclusion is: Those who separate from Salem headquarters is not happened by a deeper study of 144,000 and those with them but by their hatred of the executive council because of the disciplinary action acted upon this brother which is capable to him. He was not able to hide from God because nothing hidden of him.
Dear Brother Lucino:
There are a lot of stories that go around Davidia which we consider either gossip or unconfirmed reports and do not repeat. They really prove nothing. When it comes to a controversy over a point of doctrine we prefer to stay focused on the topic at hand and avoid side issues involving the personalities of the various parties involved. Inspiration counsels us to:
“Oh, that the Lord might guide you! You should never in a single instance allow hearsay to move you to action, and yet you have sometimes done this.” — 3T 507
“Never, never be influenced by reports.” — TM 299
Thus as far as all of the personalities involved around Adair’s initial teaching of the living “those with” and the split that resulted in the formation of Mt. Dale we have taken the time to interview all of the parties involved and can say with certainty that the only thing to go by with what the SRod teaches and the importance of ceasing from man whose breath is in his nostrils. By record of fact, the brethren that started Mt. Dale did not separate from Salem they were illegally disfellowshipped without a hearing. I can speak from my personal experience, anyone who disagrees with Don Adair and his teachings and dares to question them are cast out without cause. I have spoken with dozens of brethren who have been cast out of Salem over the years for similar reasons. You cannot go by Adair’s side of the story alone, it is very misleading and self justifying.
God will guide. Praise God!
Okay, I understand… That’s why I ask information from your side. I’m sorry if you think I proselytize you about 144,000 and those with them topic.. Before, that’s in my mind but now I realize not force to do that… Thank you brother, Godbless…
Am studing alot. Thanks
Praise the Lord brother and always ask the Holy Spirit to guide, lead, and direct you unto all Truth and believe it shall be so. God bless.
As far as the Answerer Books No. 6 & 7, I take the position that whatever Bro. Houteff wrote is of value, even if not published in his lifetime. Bro. Houteff’s statement to teach only that which was published was to prevent speculation in the message during his ministry and lifetime, not to prevent anything of his actual writings that had not been published as yet, still in manuscript form after his death. In this same view, I see value even in what Florence Houteff published of Bro. Houteff’s from 1955 onward. Likely, not one of us would take the same position on Sister White’s extensive writings, many of which were not published until after her death. There are unpublished manuscripts of Ellen White that are still being released. I would like to address one other point here. To get someone’s name correct is the most basic courtesy. I would appreciate if you would notice every letter in my last name, CALDWELL, not “Cadwell”. There is a letter “L” in there somewhere. Let me know if you have taken notice of it. I will take notice if the correction is ever made. Thank you Eric.
Tom, thank you for bringing to our attention the misspelling of your name, please accept our apologies. The correction has been made. The will of Ellen White makes clear that she gave permission to the trustees of her writings to release any of her unpublished materials as they saw fit. There is nothing in comparison of similar instruction coming from Brother Houteff. We do not know if he even left a will, or if so, anyone has ever see it or has a record. Until then the case stands that anything that he did not publish while he was living should be considered “unauthorized” and as a result not part of the sacred canon of inspired writings constituting the golden bowl. This is not to say that these manuscripts or other documents coming from old Mt. Carmel are not valuable and of historical interest, but they should be recognized as such and not used to prove a controverted point of doctrine.
In Christian regards,
The Publishers