Of the many winds of doctrine that are blowing about Davidia, one of the more devisive issues confronting present truth believers has to do with whether there will be more than 144,000 saints saved alive from the Seventh-Day Adventist church after Ezekiel 9. In this study we would like to examine this case carefully from a doctrinal perspective and to understand who are the “those with” mentioned several times in the Shepherd’s Rod message and where do they come from. A complete review of all the Rod references and justifications used to create the allusion that there are going to be more that 144,000 saved alive from the S.D.A. church and the historical background about where this doctrine came from is found in the link below. Please earnestly pray and supplicate for the Holy Spirit to guide, lead, and direct you as you delve into this most weighty and significant subject.
“Those With” the 144,000: Who are They?
For those earnest searchers for truth who want a bottom line answer please consider the basic Bible study outline below that will settle the matter for the wise.
1. How many groups of living saints are shown in Revelation chapter 7 and where do they come from?
2. How many groups of living saints are shown in the two-fold harvest in Isaiah 66:15-20?
3. Where are the “those with” that Sis. White and Bro. Houteff refer to, that is, the group of saints who die in the faith of the three angel’s message, found in the Bible and the SOP?
4. Where can a group of living saints from the S. D. A. church, in addition to the 144,000, be found in the Bible?
Answers to Questions Nos. 1 t0 4:
1. Ans. (two: the 144,000 from the Israel of today, the S. D. A. church; and the Great Multitude, from the rest of the world)
2. Ans. (two)
3. Ans. (Dan. 12:2, Rev. 11:1, Early Writings, pp. 44, 285, Great Controversy, p. 637, Testimonies, Vol. 7, p. 17)
4. Ans. (nowhere)
Those with the 144,00 in the bible
Isa 4:3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
Isa 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.
( note Jerusalem is mentioned as a separate entity from Zion and is purged simultaneously in the judgment of the living ie: first fruit harvest)
Re 14:1 ¶ And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.
( note the 144,00 stand on mount Zion not Jerusalem)
Re 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
( note my people are being called out not purged)
Isa 27:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem.
( note the Egyptians and the Assyrians are being rescued not purged or washed by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.)
Dear Bro. Burns:
You have supplied some scriptures to justify the position that the “those with” the 144,000 will be another group of living saints that will be saved from the Seventh-day Adventist church. However, closer inspection with what is found in the inspired commentary on the supplied verses coming from the Shepherd’s Rod will reveal that your position is in conflict with inspiration and therefore constitutes nothing more than a private uninspired opinion.
By quoting Isaiah 4:3, 4 as your cornerstone texts you suggest that since Jerusalem is a separate entity from Zion that they must represent two groups of saints in the first fruit harvest, namely the 144,000 and the living “those with”. However when we turn to the golden bowl no such specification is found. For example several statements from the Rod that comment on these very verses (1 TG 6:38, 1 TG 30:19, 8 Tr 25, 1 SC 4:6, 9 SC 1-12:6) makes no inference, direct or otherwise, that Zion represents the 144,000 and Jerusalem represents another group of living saints coming from the S.D.A. church. In fact, the only inspired comment on the definition of these terms “Zion” and “Jerusalem” comes from the following passage.
It is clear from this passage that Zion represents that portion of the 144,000 left (saved) from the church Headquarters (i.e. the General Conference) and Jerusalem represents those left from the rest of the church, i.e. the laity. The sum total saved during this first fruit harvest from the S. D. A. church is once again 144,000 no more, no less. To teach otherwise is to due violence to inspiration’s voice by placing one’s own opinion above that of God’s true prophet, Victor T. Houteff and that which he published. We also recommend that all the wise read everything the Rod has to say about these verses (Isa. 4:3, 4) so that no one can fool them with cunningly devised fables (see especially: 1 TG 5:7, 1 Ans. 91, 92; 1 SR Tract 55, 56).
The comments in reference to Rev. 14:1, 18:4 and Isa. 27:13 are out of context and prove nothing to the effect that there is an another group of living saints coming from the S. D. A. church in addition to the 144,ooo. Check every reference published in the Rod on these verses and see for yourself. We cannot weave into the fabric of what we think the Rod teaches to fit our own preconceived ideas, this is folly and madness.
I use to believe that it was only 144,000 until my husband brought something out that seems to make sense. Men were counted in the Bile not women and children. So as head of the house comes 144,000 men and those with them are the women and children. I understand this is private interpretation but does that not make sense? Basic Bible stories tell you that that women and children were not counted. The 5,000 fed, even Eve was not really counted. There are two Adams not two Eves. When she ate she was deceived had Adam not have taken God would have just made another Eve, etc… Could it go without actually saying that the “those with” mean women and children?
Dear Sister Candace:
Thank you for sharing your thoughts in an honest way since we all have questions about how all things fit together in this most complex and intricate message overflowing with an abundance of butter and honey to feed our souls.
In regard to the 144,000 being all males this is one of the common contradictions that comes from certain SDA pastors because they read in Rev. 14:4 that they are not defiled with women so therefore must all be adult males. However, we realize from the teachings of the Rod and the Bible that the proper meaning is symbolic, not literal, showing that the 144,000 possess pure doctrine not contaminated with the false doctrines of the churches (women) in Babylon. One of the arguments given to demonstrate that the 144,000 are comprised of men, women, and children is found in Joel 2:28, 29.
“And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.” — Joel 2:28, 29
All of Joel chapter 2 is referring to “a great people and a strong” (v. 2) which is none other than the 144,000. We could suggest going to the SRod scripture index and looking up all of the Rod references on verses 23 and 28 to gather more evidence. Also if you look carefully at the Rev. 7 chart with the four angels holding the four winds, you will see that the 144,000 first fruits are depicted as men, women, and children. We believe the original 1944 SRod study charts published by Brother Houteff are as fully inspired as the rest of the written message.
Finally regarding the “those with” the 144,000 we believe the only firm and conclusive evidence that identifies this group is those who die in the faith of the three angels messages and who will arise in the first application of special resurrection of Dan. 12:2. Here are the lead references to establish this point (EW 40, 7T 17, Rev. 11:1, Tr 5 107-110).
May God bless you as you continue search for Truth as for hidden treasure and to study to show yourself approved unto God.
Sis. Candace, I know which are written are the strong basis of all study. Allow me to share you a different study also but not far with the goldenbowl studies about 144,000 and those with them. I have a bible support Dan 12:10, Rod support 12 SC #6,7 Pg.18 6:18. This is about truth become deeper.. I have no intention to believe and accept this but for you also to study and compare with others and weigh evidences and you in the closet of prayer ask the enlightenment of the holy spirit and that’s your privelege which are capable to accept and capable to reject. Study for your own, don’t allow others bar you from studying it For salvation is individual
Dear Brother Lucino,
If you wish to proselytize your beliefs based on the Binghamite/Adairain heresy of the “those with” being more than 144,000 saved alive from the SDA church it is best that you do so on your own website or forum. We do not believe this heretical doctrine and the study posted proves the case from the Holy Bible, SOP, and SRod. Furthermore, we reject the unauthorized “New Codes” published by Florence Houteff after the death of Brother Houteff as part of the inspired canon of the Rod. For a presentation that exposes these Codes as a counterfeit, please see the links below.
http://whyperish.org/2010/06/should-we-follow-the-new-codes-today/
http://whyperish.org/2012/01/presentations-of-the-new-codes-teach-only-that-which-is-published/
Yours to follow the original SRod message 100% without addition nor subtraction by the arm of flesh,
The Publishers
Bro it means you also have to reject the manuscripts of egw publushed after her death……who controls scriptures or the storehouse or present truth to be dispensed or not? I end there
No sir, you are totally misinformed. Ellen White had a will that specified that her many unpublished writing were to be preserved by the White Estate and then made available for future publications such as compilations and daily devotional as deemed appropriate by the Estate Directors. No such will or written specifications exist in regard to the writings of V.T. Houteff and the original SRod message. So your argument is a non sequitur.
Thank you brother, the heavy weight of evidence will prove by the holy spirit… Godbless… Time is near to come